It’s not that they made a mistake with Barkley in my eyes. It’s that they had a greater need at QB and team leader.
I mean I agree, but the goal every year in the draft is to get guys who have an immediate impact.
Now they can focus on shoring up the O-line and getting a QB in the future. But Barkley was a guaranteed prospect, who is a threat every single time he touches the football. They now have 2 guys like that on offense… both who are young. They have a solid future in front of them (as long as they don’t ignore the obvious problem that Eli needs to be done, and they can’t work with an O-line like that).
No one is saying that he isn’t talented. Hell I couldn’t even argue with you if wanted to say Barkley is the best RB in the NFL right now. I mean could you imagine if he had the rams Oline? He would be putting up video game numbers.
In fact, I can’t even argue with you if you said Barkley is the BEST PLAYER in the draft. I don’t think anyone can make that argument.
But the reality is, RB is THE MOST REPLACEABLE position on the football field. Look at the last decade. Find me 1 stud high draft RB on a SB winning roster. Can you find one? Other than Lynch maybe who wasn’t even on a huge contract and who’s team won via the legion the boom, it doesn’t exist. Patriots have been winning with replacement committee members for years. And eagles copied their recipe last year.
You’re totally right, barkley is sensational ,dynamic, explosive, etc etc. Any good word you want to tag on his name. He put on a historic performance last night. 100+ yards rushing, 100+ yards receiving. That is rarified air. Few players in NFL history have done that. Then what happened? His team STILL lost by 21 points because Eli manning can’t pass the ball farther than 5 yards. Like it’s pathetic.
Meanwhile, a josh allen led bills who have an equally bad oline and NO RECEIVERS TO SPEAK OF, and playing with a 32 year old RB who was injured for 2/5 weeks are 2-3.
Which QB? You act like franchise QBs are just falling out of trees everywhere. When there is a franchise QB, you 100% take it. Even if there’s better players. Eagles took Carson, totally changed that franchise. Browns took Baker, completely changed that franchise. Rams and Goff.
Did anyone think Jet’s would be anything short of trash this season? I sure as hell didn’t. Plug in Darnold and that team actually looks like something. Their Oline is trash too. Good QBs solve that. Eli manning can’t. And Josh McCown is actually a better QB than eli manning right now.
Hell, I hate trubisky but I can’t even get mad at the bears for taking their shot. They thought he was the franchise QB and went after him. I commend them for it.
I’m also not even saying that having a rookie QB solves all their problems. Their O-line is still garbage and defense is leaky. If they had a rookie QB, hell they might even be 0-5, but it would be a more promising 0-5. They would probably even have more INTs cause at least they would attempt to push the ball down field. And that would be okay. Right now watching Eli, they have next to zero % chance of winning games.
But even with all of that, give me a QB in this draft at #2. I personally would’ve taken Darnold but Rosen is just fine. Both franchise Caliber. This is one of the most talented QB classes of all time. Generational QBs don’t fall off trees. By all respects, mayfield right now is looking like he could be a future HOFer. And although the numbers don’t show it, I think Darnold will be legit.
The last factor that no one is talking about is that with the #2 pick, Barkley has $30MM guarantee, with a $10MM cap hit. He’s one of the top paid RBs in the league as a rookie. Only RB making more than him right now is gurley, in his 4th year in the league after coming off an MVP calibur performance. Imagine if they could’ve used that $10M cap space on a real QB when even average QBs like Keenum are costing $18M a year and good but not great QBs are costing you $30M a year (cousins). Can Darnold/Baker be better than cousins? Absolutely. In fact I’d bet on it. So you’d be getting a $20M salary cap advantage on all the other teams vs a 8M+ disadvantage.
It’s such a basic concept, it shocks me when bad GMs don’t adhere to it.
and in the worst case, if they legit did not believe in any of the other QBs, THEN TRADE THE PICK AWAY. Jets sold the farm just to move up to 3rd just so they could PRAY they get lucky and giants/browns pass on a QB. That was a risky but correct move for a franchise in the shitter with an Old QB and no succession plan in place. They could’ve easily got like 3x1sts and more from a QB needy team.
Even if Barkley turns out to the the greatest RB of all time, which looks like he might, giants will regret this forever.
EDIT: If you look at the Superbowl winners in recent memory and the top ranked teams today, they’re following a pretty simple recipe. Invest in Oline, spend big on defense with a QB on a rookie Deal. Rams, seahawks/legion of boom, philly, etc. That’s the easiest path to success. Only ones to really buck that trend consistently are patriots and it’s cause Brady is willing to work for well below his worth and they have the greatest coach of all time in Belichick.
To be honest - You cant place all the blame on Eli. His O-line sucks… i mean really sucks bad. Everyone here knows Eli can throw and he is not a mobile QB… But if you have a crappy O-line, you need to get rid of the ball quick and the only option you have is to throw short…
I agree. You definitely cannot blame everything on Eli. His O line does suck. But even when Eli has clean pockets, he is not hitting receivers. Even his short throws are often off target. I can’t count the number of times he missed a screen pass to barkley by throwing it behind him. Or set up his receivers to get absolutely lit up by defenders.
Or the number of times he missed Odell downfield where Odell had 2 steps on the defender but had to slow down and come back to the ball allowing the CB to knock it out of the air.
Fact of the matter is, even with a bad Oline, you have to take shots down the field. Are you going to tell me that Watson has a good Oline? Look at what watson is doing with arguably the worst Oline in the league. Yes I think they are worse than giants by a long shot.
Do we though? I sure as hell don’t. He looks washed up and doesn’t look at all like he can throw. And part of the problem is he isn’t a mobile QB. Both Baker and Darnold are. So is Allen. Even rosen is more mobile than Eli. That in itself is part of the problem. All of those guys would be able to do more with this offense than Eli. You have one of the best WRs in the game, take some chances, throw it up and see what happens. When you’re down 3 possessions and its 3rd and 16, your first read can’t be dump it off…
Good response, and I apologize if I came across as a bit rude. Didn’t intend for it, just get fired up when talking football haha.
But I think the way I see it is: Saquon is more than just a RB. He’s a playmaker, and I believe already one of the best playmakers in the league. To me when you say “replaceable position,” I say replaceable player. I don’t see it with him. He’s incredible at what he does, and he can find pay dirt often for your team. And if you draft the best player in the draft, to me you did your job perfectly at #2.
All of these rookie QBs are guesses right now. None of them are consistently doing anything near what Saquon has done. Baker has been the most impressive sure, but I’d still rather have Saquon. You now can shift your focus to QB and O-line, knowing that you have 2 top-tier playmakers that can kill defenses.
I also agree about Eli being putrid, I was shocked he is starting this year for them. To me, the GIants should be taking the time to make some trades for a guy like Teddy B, RG3, Foles, or any decent backup QB. Just get a guy who is more mobile than a Manning, and has some decent accuracy.
So my point was this: Yes, you missed out on a franchise QB this year. Instead, you could trade for a Teddy or RG3, and at least get a serviceable bridge QB. What you DID do correctly is you grabbed the best playmaker in the draft. You got a TD machine… and that’s huge.
I’m also not a Giants fan by any means, I just think their future isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. They grabbed the guaranteed guy. What’s wrong with that? They could’ve drafted one of these QBs who could end up a bust, and people would mock them for making a horrible decision. They came out with a win-lose in my book.
Also not sure if I agree on the Darnold/Baker vs Cousins argument right now. Lots of hype on these guys, vs a criminally underrated QB. Cousins can sling it around the yard, but his name is muddied because of poor decision making by the Redskins. Darnold has looked VERY up and down, and Baker has shown great talent, but he’s been shaky at times too.
Different opinions on the move is all. At the end of the day, I do agree that a franchise QB changes your team like none other. But there are other ways to win… but none of those ways include an aged, immobile QB combined with a horrible O-line. That’s on them.
Eli has looked far from accurate this year.
The Giants organization is a year or two late in facing the truth that’s been slapping them in the face: Eli is not that guy anymore. The speed of the game has changed, and his arm is clearly not the same anymore.
I’m baffled that the Giants thought he had another year in him. What in the world have they been watching?
Bro, i took nothing you said as rude. I like you, enjoy a good heated back and forth discussion. If anything, i should probably apologize if I came off as rude as people have so often pointed out that I am. Now onto the discussion…
I agree with everything you said about talent and barkley as a player. Like I said, I think he has a shot at being one of the best RB to ever play the game. Like Barry sanders level. But at the end of the day, that doesn’t win you SBs. If your organizations goal is to just put on a show and have talented players play, Barkley is the 1.01. No doubt about it. But every team’s goal should be win championships. If it isn’t, you’re doing it wrong. And I don’t think barkley helps them win a SB in this day and age. In fantasy, I always draft BPA cause you can always trade. But in real life, I think you HAVE to take into account positional need. And given the shelf life of a QB (especially with these rule changes) at like 15-20 years vs RBs at like closer to 5, you have to make the best move for your franchise.
Of course everyone is a guess. But you have to take that risk man. Like I said, even with Trubisky, who i don’t think is the answer, I respect them for taking their shot. QBs aren’t falling out of trees man. They’re a much more rare commodity than RBs. Also building a good Oline takes time. So by the time you have a good Oline + good QB, Barkley is probably not even in his prime anymore. And there will be another young talented RB to take who probably won’t be as good as barkley, but will be good enough. Think like Zeke/Fournette/Guice/Hunt/Kamara/etc. Plenty of guys in the 3rd round you can take who will also cost you <$2M a year vs $10M a year in cap space. Also, a good/elite QB can mask your problems on Oline. Rodgers has been playing with a horrid Oline for most of his career. Same with Stafford. And yeah, barkley + Odell are 2 of the best at their position. But even with barkley putting up 200 yards, where did that get them? Nowhere.
I 100% agree with Teddy B. I think they should be making moves to get him now. Having his mobility would help mask things. But fact is at the time of the draft, no one even knew if Teddy B would even be effective. Wasn’t until after pre-season he showed he could still play. So that wasn’t even in the cards. And as good as foles was in the SB, I think we all saw his limitations earlier this year. If you put him behind this oline instead of the eagles pro bowl line, he would be mauled. RGIII is washed so that’s not an option. Back up QBs are backups for a reason. Can’t expect a career backup to lead a franchise.
Entirely possible. But point is, you take the shot because if you hit, sets you up for a decade+. Barkley can’t do that. Need to think longer term. RBs depreciate in value after their rookie contract. QBs increase in value.
To clarify, I’m not saying either of them are better than Cousins at this point in time. I’m saying they have the potential to be better than him. Especially baker who from the film I’ve seen so far, looks like straight money.
Disagree with this one. Since Baker has started, it’s the receivers that have been killing him. Sure he’s made a couple mistakes here and there but he’s a rookie who got tossed into the fire with no 1st team reps (cause Hue is an idiot btw). In the raiders game, i counted like 9 dropped passes. In his first game, 3 dropped passes or he would’ve been like 85% completion. Even last game with raiders, another 4-5 dropped passes when he’s been throwing straight dimes. And all on huge 3rd downs too which has been killing them. If I could bet on any player, it’s baker. And it reflects in all my fantasy teams. I have him in a lot of dynasty / superflex. Darnold has been up and down for sure but I can see his potential and what he can be. His decision making and throws are pretty dope. Recommend you watch some of the coaches film on him if you have time. Same with Baker. You’ll be pleasantly surprsied. Even Rosen has been doing far better than people think.
Definitely agree with you there. There are always different ways to win. I just think in this day and age, in the modern NFL where passing is the way to go, having a young franchise QB on a rookie contract + a good D seems to be the most successful one and the one that a lot of teams who are currently successful are trying to replicate.
If the NYG had a better franchise QB option in mind for the 2019 draft, and chose to sacrifice this season but pickup an exceptional talent like Barkley, they will prove to be very competent in the front office. That’s the only way this works out for them in the long run.
That’s not what they did though. They clearly thought this was a championship contending team. Basically came out and said it. Then signed Odell to a massive contract. They are a win now team and for whatever reason, they thought Eli was the answer. Shocker, he ain’t it.
So even if they do land a good QB next year somehow, they aren’t going to get credit for it cause it wasn’t by design. It was because they f***ed up this draft so bad they tanked into another top pick.
Besides the abysmal play that is the NY Giants, this is really screwing my WR priority draft league, where my 2 studs are supposed to be hopkins and OBJ.
OBJ is a phenominal reciever, but he is constantly being held back by Eli. Last week gave us a glimmer of hope that he’ll return to form, but with last nights 10 points (ppr) performance i’m truly worried for what is going to happen ROS.
It’s starting to feel like i payed for a WR1 that is putting up average WR2 numbers, and without the RB1 caliber players that i passed on to get WR’s, my team suffers.
Here’s to hoping the Rams have a down week, going up against cooks AND kupp
Teddy is not a running QB. He is a pocket passer. He can run, it’s not his natural tendancy/talent though. Viking fan here so I’ve watched him play. Great throwing on a rollout though, accurate passer.
Looking at the landscape of backup Qb’s rn, i think teddy, RG3, and maybe brisset are the best options, short of drafting someone new
As a Jets fan who always deals with Giants fans talking about all the problems with the Jets, it feels good to see how bad they’re doing. But to be fair, drafting Saquon wasn’t a terrible choice, considering their best players are still fairly young, and it looks like they’ll be able to grab a QB really early next year any way haha. That QB will be coming into a very good situation as long as their OLine improves in SOME way lol.
Them drafting Saquon instead of a QB is looking a lot like the rams grabbing Goff a year after taking Gurley.
They can have Seimian of our hands here in Norse country
If I were Teddy I would stick it out in Nola for a year or two. Brees already has said if they win a Super Bowl hes leaving on top and to be at the helm of that offense is way more desirable.
Giants aren’t in bad shape but its got to be like a 3 year plan (will the NYC fans even allow that?). You have this year which is a waste outside of hey you got Barkley. Next year you draft a qb and let Eli mentor and turn the job over around week 7 or so. Have your growing pains. 3rd year you get out from under Eli’s contract and use that space to strengthen your interior players on offense and defense.
McAdoo had it right last year when he benched Eli and then the fan backlash was so bad that owners/management needed a scapegoat so what did they do? THEY FIRED THE COACH THAT ENDED UP BEING RIGHT ALL ALONG!
No shot that if Eli continues how he’s been playing that he’ll play into next year. He’ll most certainly finish out this year, but with the QB complaints at an all time worst, they’ll either trade for someone or draft someone and throw them right into the fire.
Yeah but Eli will still be there. The amount of knowledge that QB family has should not be wasted in getting a new guy ready.
Yes I agree with that assessment. Wasn’t saying he’s a run first QB. My point was that Teddy can escape and run when he needs to. he can also roll and pass when he needs to. Eli is capable of neither.
Wouldn’t that be something. Only caveat there is Rams had the talent and was one a couple Oline pieces and a Fisher to McVay upgrade away. Very few teams in the league can benefit from a monumental leap like that. Fisher was one of a kind. Maybe Hue and Garrett are top contenders.
I would to but I think end of the day, all these dudes just want to play. Especially Teddy coming back from injury. If he could get a starter job with starter money, he’d probably take it.
I think if he played Webb to see what they had, might have been different. Problem was he played Geno Smith who everyone knew was not the answer.
Agree with this. Eli doesn’t deserve to play, but he’s be a pretty good teacher. If McCown can teach Darnold, Eli can at least teach another rookie.
McAdoo went about it all wrong.
He should have made it a transition benching. Get PR, the team, and fans to the somewhat same understanding that the plan is to bench Eli soon to see what they have in a different QB since the season was shot already.
Ending Eli’s starting streak sparked the backlash even though it was said that Eli didn’t want to start for a few plays just to keep his record. It was either all or nothing for him.
This plan would’ve worked, IF he played Webb instead of Geno Smith.
The intentions were proper, and he was looking towards the future of the team but the execution was poor and ultimately cost him his job. Scapegoat or not.