Yeah. I think they wanted McAdoo gone for more reasons than just the Eli situation. That just gave them a way to tie up a couple of loose ends nicely.
Well McAdoo didn’t have control of the lockerroom or respect of his players. That probably played a huge part too.
Doesn’t look too much better right now with Shurmur but at least he showed some poise in dealing with the OBJ interview controversy.
It speaks negatively on OBJ that a rookie seems to be the team leader right now. (Eli has never really had that quality as far as the whole locker room goes). Not that Diva WR normally make good leaders but I think thats what they expected when they gave him the big deal. I think he’s upset that that offense isn’t being ran through him now.
I think this is one of the biggest mistakes people make. Look at the patriots, slater has been a team captain for as long as I can remember. He’s a special teams player. James white is a captain. He’s an average talent at best. Talent does not = leadership. More of then not, it does because people are more willing to listen to and follow the best players on the team but it is not always the case.
OBJ has never been a leader. He said himself in the interview that he’s trying to learn to be a leader. He has always been a phenomenal talent. I wish the giants would have surrounded him with some more veteran leadership to show him the ropes. Imagine if OBJ had someone like Chris Carter to mentor him like how he mentored Randy Moss. I think its very rare for someone to just all of a sudden become a leader. Even at LSU, Juice was the leader in that locker room. Not OBJ. I just don’t think OBJ is cut out to be a locker room leader. He’s just a producer on the field.
And now the media and all these casting booth wannabes who never made it want to criticize him for his passion and frustration with losing. It’s so moronic and backwards.
They had Marshall in place but he has his own issues.
BMarsh struggled with mental illness his entire career. Not sure if he’s the best guide. Imagine if they had someone like Larry Fitz (CC’s disciple) teach him the ways. Trying to think of other names around that time but I’m drawing blanks.
Honestly I think Landin Collins is the leader in that locker room. He shows it on the field and off the field. That’s who I would want to be the voice / face of the franchise.
Yeah that’s what I meant by ‘own issues’, but then again there was a time when Carter was pretty far off the rails with addiction. I have no doubt he knows the position, but he tried to be a little ‘too involved’ for my tastes when his son was going to Alabama. Some of his actions down here left a bad taste in my mouth. I know you want to see your kids do the best and expectations are high when you are a HOF player, but his kid simply wasn’t the best WR on the roster and CC had a hard time accepting that.
Yeah I didn’t really follow any of that stuff with his son but I loved Randy and I do think Randy would not have been as great as he was without the guidance from CC.
Oh he was a great leader within that locker room. Today, he was talking about handling how it was when Moss came in how he had to handle things speaking in public because Jake Reed was coming off of 4 straight 1000 yard seasons and a rookie was basically there to replace him.
I have to disagree on Barkley being a mistake pick, Eli is a bad QB i agree, but that offensive line is horrible, I would not want to put a rookie QBs behind it. And Barkley is a beast and could become the best player in the nfl.
Doesn’t matter cause he can’t carry his team to wins. Like I said, I don’t think the giants would be that much better with a rookie QB but at least Darnold is mobile. He covers up for the bad oline because he is mobile and can throw on the run. Eli can’t do that. And then you can start building more of the oline around darnold next year. As of right now, even with a better Oline, Eli can’t do anything. He’s missing throws with a clean pocket. Barkely could become the best RB in the history of the NFL, which he very well might. He could put up 2300 yards from scrim which is what he is on pace to do and break eric dickerson’s rookie record. But it still doesn’t matter. No matter what he does, his team can’t win as long as they have eli at QB.
I agree with you about Eil, but you just don’t pass up a generational player like Barkley. And the QBs in the 2019 draft class are going to be really good. They weren’t going to be good if they draft a QB, and Donald wouldn’t have started this season anyway and if he did it would be middle of the season. Donald also wouldn’t have McCown to help him develop. Manning is not the teaching type ( just ask Webb). If you look at their team now they have two young Wr young TE and now a great Rb, they can get a great QBs in the draft and they need to work on their OL they could be great in two years
Actually yeah, you do. If your teams goal is to win superbowls, which every team’s should be or else they’re doing it wrong, then you use the most effective strategy to do so. Name me a team in the last decade who won off the back of a stud high draft pick high $ RB? Maybe seattle with beastmode but even then, they won off the backs of their defense, not off lynch. Hell even name me a team in the last 2 decades. The last RB to be a superbowl MVP was Terrell Davis. And he wasn’t a high draft pick either so wasn’t hitting your team for $10M cap space in his rookie year. And they still needed a HoF QB. There’s reason why 90% of superbowl MVPs are QBs. You can’t ignore that position.
The QBs in the 2019 draft class are going to be really good? Sure maybe, who knows. But at the time oof the draft, that was not the consensus feeling at all. In fact, people were saying 2019 was one of the weaker QB classes. 2020 is projected to be another strong class. either way, it’s completely irrelevant what you or I think about the 2019 QB class because the Giants did not draft barkley to go with Eli and think they were going to be one of the worst teams in the NFL to even have a shot at another top pick to even draft on of those QBs. They drafted barkley thinking this would be their superbowl run with Eli.
Also, the 2018 draft class was arguably one of the deepest and most talented classes we’ve had in a long time. 4 out of 5 QBs are already starting in the NFL and winning games for their team. Give me Darnold over Barkley every single time, even though I know Barkley is a better player and was the best football player in the draft. It just isn’t smart. If you go 200+ yards and a TD while making every single defender look like they’re from pop warner as a RB and your team loses by 21 points cause your QB sucks, that should tell you all you need to know. Herbert is cool and all but I’ll take Baker, Darnold and Rosen over them any day of the week. The Cardinals were literally worst team in the NFL. In steps Rosen and they are at least passable. Did you think the jets would be good this season? I didn’t. I thought they would be trash. In steps darnold and they are actually competing in the AFC. And they’re rolling with Crowell and Powell at RB and both these teams have putrid Olines. But the QBs can help cover those warts to a degree. You put Eli and Barkley on both those teams, and they’d both be contending for #1 draft pick next year right now. That’s the difference a QB can make.
I’m not saying having a rookie QB makes them a good team all of a sudden. Hell, they might even have a worse record but at least they would be losing in a way that gives them a shot or hope at winning down the line as they build for the future. You don’t pass up on a franchise QB for a RB. Even if he is a generational talent. It’s stupid. Franchise QBs aren’t falling out of trees every year so if there’s a guy there, you take your shot. Imagine what the Jags could have been if they passed on Fournette at 4th overall and took either Watson or Mahomes. It’s just so stupid. Jags with a legit QB are superbowl favorites. The Jets traded up to 3 not even knowing if either QB would fall to them. They understand how important a QB is. That is a team who has had so much talent role through but been a perennial loser cause they have missed on QBs over the past few years but they know you have to keep trying. With Darnold, you get someone to build around, on a cheap rookie contract which frees up like 15-20M of cap space for you to go out and get whatever other pieces you want. It’s one of the most effective recipes being used right now by the best teams in the NFL. And if after that you still REALLY wanted a stud RB, then go sign Bell or a good FA RB lol. Is Barkley to Bell really better than Darnold to Eli for the next 10-15 years? Hell no.
Yeah they have one of the best TEs in the game. They have one of the most talented WRs I have ever seen. They have what I think is currently the best RB in the NFL and maybe the best RB in the history of the NFL. They have the highest paid left tackle in football. They have another great left guard they just drafted. Where did that get them with Eli at the helm? No where. And what your saying is true. IF they can get a great QB. That’s a BIG if. There’s a reason why journeyman QBs like Keenum got paid 18M a year. There’s a reason why Cousins has 30M a year guaranteed. There’s a reason why Ryan is getting $25M a year. Are any of these guys generational talent? No. They’re slightly above average at best and in some cases, just average. But the QB position is just one of the hardest ones to get right. And your team isn’t expected to be a #1 or #2 overall pick every year so when you are in that positions, IMO, you have to take a QB when all you have is a near 37 year old washed up QB who should have been cut 5 years ago. It’s just smart business.
I love barkley. I think he’s going to be one of the best to ever play and future HOF if he stays healthy. But none of that matters because taking an RB 2nd overall just isn’t smart business. I would have preferred that if they didn’t think any of these QBs were good, to trade back and make a killing in draft picks. Hell they could’ve made the same trade to the Jets. Or trade back to where the colts were and get a quinten Nelson who imo, was the 2nd best player in the draft. That would at least help Eli’s protection. Build up that oline, get a bunch of future 1sts and take a shot next year. But by taking barkley, they basically thought they could compete now, which they clearly cannot.
The giants have two loses where the got beat down, and that was against the saints and the eagles… both have high powered offenses. Ever other loss was 7 or less, so they have been in most of there games. Also I can also name teams that won a Super Bowl without a great QB (Tampa, Ravens twice, last years Eagles) Having a great QBs don’t mean you are going to the super ask Dan Marino, and Alex Smith both #1 overall picks and you talked about Davis being a Super Bowl MVP as a late round pick… how about Tom Brady. My point is at number 2 you take the best player available and that was Barkley. I’m not saying that Donald would have been a bad choice, but Barkley was either. No Rookie Qb would have started for this Giants team and if they did it would have been a disaster, with no OL and no running game. Teams would blitz all the Time
Sure I’ll give you the saints. But eagles? A high powered offense? Welcome to 2018 man. The entire narrative this entire season was how bad the eagles offense was. Wentz was still trying to get back into the form. The team couldn’t even put up more than 24 points for the entire season until they faced the giants who had home field advantage. This is the same eagles offense that lost to the titans the week before. The same eagles offense that put up 20 points against the colts AT HOME. They put up 21 points AT home against the vikings who got blown up by rams, packers, and even the bills. The bills put up more points than eagles did vs vikings lol. Not sure what you’re watching but that team was not and is not yet a high powered offense. You’re living in 2017 bro. Not saying they won’t be a high powered offense at some point this season but before they faced the giants, it was a struggling team still trying to find their groove. After meeting the giants, they all of a sudden become a high powered offense? Give me a break.
Not to mention this is the same eagles secondary that let Mariota put up 350 yards and multiple TDs. Yeah, Mariota. Who literally just got shut out last week at home.
Just FYI, a 7 point differential in the NFL is a wide margin. Anytime vegas sets a betting line that is like -6 or more, that is considered to be heavily favored/blowout in betting terms. So not sure if that’s something you should be bragging about. But let’s look at the teams they lost to in those instances:
Jags: Blake bortles led offense on the road. Defense held them to 20 points and giants lost cause they couldn’t even break 20 or beat one of the worst QBs in the NFL. The Cowboys just beat the breaks off them with a dak prescott led offense where Cole Beasley is their WR1.
Cowboys: Lost by 7 cause they couldn’t put up more than 20 points. Also, that was based on the ending score. Did you watch the game? At no point in the game was it even considered remotely close. Giants scored a garbage time TD to cut the lead to 7. They got blown the f out.
Panthers: The only game where they even had something that remotely resembled an offense. And your best WR had to throw one of those TDs for 60 yards, not Eli. Honestly, giants should’ve won this game if not for atrocious reffing so I’ll even give you that one.
At what point do you stop making excuses for the giants and just come to terms with reality.
Did I say it would automatically put them into the SB? No. All I said was I think that having franchise QB is more important and gives you a better chance than putting all your eggs into the RB basket. I chose TD cause he was the only RB in the last 30 years to win a superbowl MVP and the last time I remember a star RB actually carrying his team to the superbowl but even he had a HOF QB. Time before that I remember is probably the cowboys but he also had a HOF QB. How many Tom Brady’s have there been? You’re really going to use like the one guy to make your case? I’d say Kurt warner is another example of that but those are extremely rare. You need to play your odds. If you’re building your team hoping for miracle late round QBs to get you there, that’s a losing recipe. Not to mention Brady has the greatest coach of all time by his side. Who do the giants have again?
In the last 10 years, 7/10 superbowl MVPs were QBs. 70%. 0% RBs. And in the mix of MVPs there, there are a couple LBs (DEN, Seattle) and WR (Steelers).
As for Dan Marino, did he not single handedly carry his team to the superbowl in his first year? Are you trying to tell me that team would have been better if they had taken an RB over a HOF QB and arguably the greatest passer we’ve ever seen? Give me a break. In fact, if you look at the draft that year, we know taking an RB would not have been better.
First of all, lol. Know your history man. Dan Marino was not a #1 pick. John Elway was the #1 of that year and he took his team to 2 superbowls and is a 1st ballot HOFer. Dan Marino was the 27th overall pick. In fact, it was a huge controversy about that because teams had released some rumor that Marino was a drug addict. Also, guess which teams took running backs in that year? Rams took eric dickerson with the 2nd overall pick. Yeah 1st ballot HOF running back in the consideration for the greatest of all time. Single season rushing leader, rookie rushing record. Very similar to the situation barkley is in. Want to know how many SBs the rams won with Dickerson on their team? How many SBs they appeared in? Zero. They won 2 playoff games for the 5 years he spent with LA. And that was in a time when the RB position was way more important than it is now. it was a running league in the 80s. It’s a passing league now. The seahawks took an RB too at #3 overall. Curt Warner. I’ll let you take a wild guess how that worked out. Guess which teams in that draft made superbowl appearances and have superbowl wins? Guys that took their shot on the best QBs.
- John Elway, went to 4 and won 2, one of which I credited to Terrel Davis, a RB as I said above.
- Jim Kelly, went to 4 superbowls, lost all 4 as part of the tragic bills and the missed kick curse.
- Dan Marino, went to 1 superbowl, still HOF QB and set all time passing records during a time where the NFL was run heavy. If Marino played in this day and age, he would put up videogame numbers. To this day, I think him and Rodgers are the most talented passers I have ever seen.
Each of the QBs I listed above alone have more SB appearances than all of the RBs (3 total) taken in the top 10 picks in that draft year alone. Cause even 1 appearance > 0.
Congrats, you named a guy who hasn’t won a superbowl who was drafted #1 overall. If you would like me to name you all of the RBs drafted in the top 10 who didn’t win superbowls, DM me. The list is long. Also, smith put up an MVP caliber season last year. No one said QBs don’t bust. Its the draft, any player can bust. All I’m saying is you need to take that shot and make the gamble on your franchise QB cause you don’t get those opportunities too often. Unless you’re the cleveland browns. And just look at the browns. For the past 2 decades, they did what you think is best. Take BPA, trade down, ignore QB. How’d that work out for them? And for the first time, they took their shot on their guy who they think is the franchise guy and got Baker. And for the first time ever, they aren’t the laughing stock of the NFL.
Maybe you’re right. Maybe you’re wrong. I can’t say with certainty that NO rookie QB would have started and if they started, could it have been a disaster? Very likely. But i’d rather have a team take their shot at the future than be stuck in this abyss that is the giants now. A bunch of wasted talent. I’d also happily bet that Darnold on Giants would be 10x better than Eli based on mobility alone. The jets before darnold, didn’t have an Oline or a running game. Hell, their Oline is still below average at best. But he makes it work cause that’s what good QBs do. Same with Rosen. You make a statement like “No Rookie QB would have started for this giants team”. Are you trying to argue with me that the giants were worse than the Cardinals? Cardinals and Bills were consensus worst teams in the NFL after the first couple of weeks. Both made a change and both have starting rookie QBs. Jet’s made that decision outright. Browns made that decision 2 weeks ago. So to make a claim like that has no basis. Of the 5 QBs taken in the 1st round, 4/5 are starters and all of them have accumulated at least 2 wins for their respective teams and all of those teams with less talent than the giants have. More than Eli or barkley has done.
The combo of Eli and giants oline is the worst of all time. Giants Oline surrenders the most pressures and Eli is the worst QB under pressure. That’s not even an opinion, it’s just a fact. Numbers are there to prove it. His passer rating when pressured is worst in the league.
In case you haven’t been watching. teams are already blitzing all the time. And Eli can’t do anything about it cause he has no mobility.
A lot to unpack here, first off the Eagles started the season without their QB there number one WR and their starting RB hurting. They Giants got them when they got healthy ( with the exception of Ajayi)
Plus we are looking at more of an indictment on their D. And you want to look at 2018, ok let us look at the top teams in the league ( Ram, And the Chargers) each have a great QB and a great RB. Now I give you Hunt was a 3 round pick, but they had Ware so they didn’t need a back as bad. Also 1 QBs that got picked high and didn’t make the Super Bowl ( Ryan leaf, jaMarcus Russell, Tim Couch, And RG3) all talented all put in bad situation. And how do the teams that drafted Marcus Mariota Jameis Winston and Andrew luck looking. And I’m not saying Donald isn’t 10x better then Eli. I’m saying he is not 10x better then Barkley. Both shows leadership, and the ability to play the game at a high level. And QBs have a higher chance of busting then any other position especially if they are in a bad situation. The Jets has a running game, a good OL, a solid Defense and a stable receiving core and someone willing to Teach him. The Giants had none of that. Barkley was NFL ready you don’t pass up on him. Besides it is 6 games in their career how can any one say the draft of any one of these players was a misstake.
They’ve had both Jeffrey and Wentz for 3 weeks. They failed to score more than 24 points against both the Titans and the vikings. Both incredibly suspect defenses that other teams went to town on. There’s a reason why I didn’t bring up the games against Falcons or the buccs, both atrocious defenses. Because I didn’t want to punish eagles for not having Wentz. Even though every other team put up a boat load of points on them with less. Giants were not the first game they got when healthy so what you said there is just factually incorrect.
No sure what you’re proving here. I didn’t say having a great RB doesn’t help. I just said having a great QB matters more.
This is your opinion. Hunt is a generational talent and miles above ware. There’s a reason why ware barely sees the field with Hunt there. Either way, not sure how this is relevant at all.
Ryan leaf is a self admitted drug addict and guy who didn’t put in the work and relied purely on athleticism. Also, again, you’re listing draft busts. When did I say drafting a QB top overall was a lock to succeed? The only thing I’ve said is you need to take that risk as the team because IF that draft pick hits, you’re set for 10-15 years. With an RB, EVEN when you hit like giants did with saquan and he performs like a god, which he has, it doesn’t even matter cause your team is still trash. Also, RGIII was an absolute phenom when he got drafted. He single handedly carried that trash franchise to the playoffs in his rookie year. The reason why he busted out is because Shannahan is a moron and ran him into the ground and made the dude play with a torn ACL. Jamarcuss russell is one of the biggest busts of all time and made no sense why the raiders even drafted him. Raiders are one of the worst drafting franchises of all time.
Mariota didn’t work out, Winston is plenty talented but for some reason can’t keep his hands to himself. Andrew luck? are you seriously going to try and use Luck as an example. The first year he was drafted, colts went from worst team in the league to playoff contenders. Luck single handedly carried that franchise for years before his season ending injury and is back again and almost single handedly winning games with replacement level WRs and no RBs or Oline to speak of. I bet you 32/32 NFL GMs today would trade away barkley if they could get Luck. That was a horrible example to pick lol. Luck did everything for all those years with literally no help around him. No Oline, no RBs, 1 decent WR to speak of. That is what having a generational talent at QB can do. RBs can’t do that.
Higher chance than any other position of busting is a stretch. Do you have the numbers to quantify that? For all the busts you named, I can also name hits who completely turned a franchise around. Goff, Wentz, Cam to just name a few in the past couple of years. I’d say if anything, WR probably have the highest bust rate when taken in the early rounds. I agree with you that RB is the easiest to translate from College to NFL and might have a low bust rate but I don’t have he number to back that up. Doesn’t sound like you do either. You’re just hand picking examples to fit the narrative. And EVEN if QBs have a higher bust rate, it just doesn’t matter. You still have to take that shot because WHEN they do hit, it matters SO much more than when the RBs hit. Serviceable RBs are a dime a dozen. Eagles just won with Ajayi/Clement/Smallwood as their RBs. Patriots won with James white and Dion Lewis. Are any of these world class RBs? No.
Jets had a good running game? From what? 2 Blowup games by crowell? Jets have a good OL? What are you basing that on? Coming into the season they ranked 21 of 32 and giants ranked 25 of 32. Hardly Good by any metric. Current in season rankings, NYJ Oline ranks 28th out of 32. Giants rank 32 out of 32 in pass pro. Jets actually rank lower than giants when looking at sacks allowed in pass pro. Which part of either of those are good again?
What stable receiving core do the jets have? Are you actually trying to make the argument that jets have a better or more stable receiving core than Giants? That’s an absolute joke. Giants have OBJ, Shepard and Engram when he comes back as well as barkley coming out of the backfield. To begin the season, Quincy was the jets best receiver. He’s gone due to injury. In comes journeyman WR kearse and deep threat Robby anderson and journeymen terrell pryor. Which part of that WR corps is stable again?
Because we have an entire history of datapoints to show how important it is to get the QB right. Patriots built an entire dynasty that spans across almost 2 decades because they hit the jackpot on a QB. Not saying that there will ever be another brady, but when you have a shot to get someone who could even be 70% as good as brady is, not taking it is absolutely foolish.
Joe Montana, Jim McMahon, Troy Aikman, John Elway, both Mannings, those are the QBs that got drafted in the top 5 that won a Super Bowl. And you keep bringing up Brady but where was he drafted?? That is a true state but does that state show how much of that 70% were drafted in the first round. Does that state shows how successful a team is with out a running game. Now I’m not saying a QBs is not important, but Barkley was not a mistake pick. But we will not agree on this point so let just agree that John Gruden suuuucks lol
Amen brother. Feel bad for raider nation. Stuck with chuck for 10 long years…
I do think you’re forgetting some names there. Wentz technically has a superbowl, although he didn’t play in it, he carried his team in an MVP season effort. Joe Namath I’m pretty sure was 1st overall and won a superbowl as well. Terry Bradshaw is another one. Pretty sure there are others I just don’t remember off the top of my head. And going forward, I think Goff will be a contender for years to come.
I agree 100% Eli is the worst starter in the league. Yeah his O line sucks, but he still has the likes of Barkley, Beckham and Engram to support him and he still doesn’t produce. And for some reason, he’s completely forgotten how to throw passes on target. It’s bad enough he doesn’t get the necessary amount of time to make a good read and throw on a regular basis, but when he does he seems to still miss the type of throws he needs to be able to make at this level. Barkley was the right pick, but they still should have prioritized drafting the successor to Eli in the last draft. It looks like they won’t have a choice next year with an almost guaranteed top 3 pick.