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Ethical or not?


#1

Hi Guys,

Do you think its ethical for teams within the same league to advise other owners regarding trades within said league?

Thanks!


#2

I wouldn’t like it. Too easy to assume collusion going on there.


#3

If someone is brand new to the league and fantasy i don’t have a major issue with it. As long said advice is not about a trade you are trying to pull off with them and it’s not done in an underhanded way to damage another opponent and is just a one off.
Giving someone new to fantasy the ‘lay of the land’ is fine, real world QBs are worth X but in fantasy RBs/WRs are worth Y and what formats change this etc. It can’t be a regular thing though, and i think the league should be aware that advice was given in this way so its open and fair. Ultimately it’s meant to be fun, competitive fun so having everyone clued up is part of that. Its boring if there are guys you can exploit all the time due to lack of knowledge/experience, plus it puts newbies off

If it’s between two owners who know what they’re doing then i’m not sure it’s right no, beyond the type of water cooler chat you may have that’s fine but an actual tactical discussion is a step to far and is collusion of sorts


#4

I think it depends on the experience of the owners. For instance we started a league in my office this year and half the league is basically new to fantasy football and isn’t as well informed as experienced players. As the commissioner I try to help them and give them as much honest advice that I can as far as trades, waiver wire, start/sits when the ask for it. I don’t actively seek them out to give them advice.


#5

It depends…

Being relatively new to fantasy (this is my 3rd year playing), I have been the victim of bad/malicious trade advice from other league members.

That being said, I have been advised by other league members to stop me from making very poor trade decisions as well.

If there is obvious ill intent in the advice given, then it is unethical.


#6

What this really comes down to is if you are in a league where people are purposely giving out bad advice to league mates to get an advantage you are probably in a shitty league and should find a new one. Half the fun of fantasy football is the debate and discussions between people about it


#7

Totally agree. The fun of pulling of a trade is selling your side of the situation or story on players to the other owner, it should be a fun debate and not one highly knowledgeable player screwing someone with less knowledge to completely rip them off. That and the tactical challenge of building yourself into a strong position for now but more importantly later in the season with RB/WR strength and depth usually to use to your advantage later takes weeks and weeks of planning, research and successful trade talk, it should be like winning a game of risk against good opponents everyone has a plan and approach and when yours works its the sweetest feeling. The better the other owners knowledge the better it is when you win!


#8

Lets assume that all teams involved are experienced fantasy players. Surely the bad advice intentionally is unethical on the part of the adviser, but suppose the advise given regarding the trade is intended to be good advice. Is that advise in turn bad for the other team which is involved in the trade?


#9

Don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. It’s no different than people coming on here and asking others for advice. Also, it allows people to gauge the market and have others come in with competing bids. Once a trade is accepted, there’s no turning back so I think it’s actually just good practice to get advice from others PRIOR to a trade is executed.

@Bartman Collusion means when 2 players conspire with one another to the benefit of one player and the detriment of another. I.e. completing a super lopsided trade that makes no sense to help one player win the championship from like a losing team. But if you get trade advice from others and that other person puts in a competing bid that is better, how is that collusion? It simply isn’t. Based on the above, sounds a lot like complaining about trying to trade rape someone but being scared that other more knowledgeable will give the advice so that you aren’t able to do so.

I am the commissioner in my home league and there are new and less experienced managers. I encourage those to ask and seek for advice either from myself or others in the league. If they come to me for advice on a trade involving a player who I was intending to trade for, I recuse myself from giving them advice and say it up front. I just say hey I am actually already making an offer for one of the players involved in this trade (without saying which) so I won’t comment on this trade. I’ve found that this approach works pretty damn well. Has already saved the league from a couple of low ball trade rapes and has actually significantly increased the trade dialogue and activity in the league.


#10

Im not talking about a discussion between the two parties involved in the trade, that is 100% fine. I was referring to a third party giving advice to one or the other trading teams while all three managers are in the same league.


#11

I understand helping new fantasy players, perhaps I should have put that into my original question, this is not in regards to “trade rape” in a scenario where there are new/vulnerable players who may need a helpful tip or hint.

in response to the first part of your respone there is a difference between coming on here and seeking advice because we don’t play in each others leagues, but the intra-league managers giving input have a vested interest in the outcome of the trade.

for example, lets say that I am asked to provide input on a trade between two teams in a league in which I am playing. Now I will face both of these teams during the season. lets say the trade looks like this:

team a: gives tj yeldon

team b: gives crowell
(owns fournette)

whether its fair or not depends on how you value those two players.

Now lets say team a asks me if I think its a good trade for his team and if he should offer it.

Is it ethical for me weigh in, knowing that the trade could benefit or hurt my standing in the league depending on whether or not the trade goes through, even if I give honest information.


#12

The fact that you are on here asking this question, shows me that you are an ethical guy and not a douche. I guess if you’re approaching it from that perspective, it depends on your league. My home league is with all friends of mine. And I consider myself an ethical guy as well so I am always happy to offer my advice and thoughts to those who are willing to seek it. Similar to these forums. I think if you do not have mal content, it is totally fine for you to say what you really feel. And honestly, if you are biased (as all of us are), it’s up to the other side to ultimately make that decision for themselves. If you’re just saying a bunch of stuff that makes no sense and has nothing to support it just to force them into a certain decision, if they are competent, they should easily be able to smell the bullshit. Internet is a beautiful thing, anyone can go on at any time and get access to the same information as you or I. If they are too lazy to do that, than honestly it’s their own fault.

Like in my league, when people come to me for advice, I never tell them what to do. I’ll never say “you should accept that trade” or “you should turn that trade down”. Often what I do is say here is my opinion on the pros and cons of each side. Then I’ll point them to some resources/articles/sites that I used to come to that conclusion. I tell everyone in my league to follow me on twitter for example and I tell all of them about these forums. So they can come on here and read what I’ve said in the past and verify for themselves that I’m not just pulling shit out of my ass to my own benefit. And like I said above, if the trade involves a player that I’m interested in or I have a conflict, I just say hey, I’m not going to comment on this one cause I have a conflict due to X.

For example, if someone came to me asking the question you said above, this is how I would respond:

"Well there are pros and cons to both. With Yeldon, he is a very competent pass catcher and has been involved in passing game in the past. So if fournette goes down, he is in for a big workload. The jags are also a top D in the game so if he wins the role, than he is in for a big workload. The downside is, he really needs fournette to go down due to injury in order to be start worthy.

With crowell, he is not involved in the passing down work. That is with Powell. However, looks like Darnold is the real deal and the team isn’t as bad as we all thought so the game scripts might not be as awful as we had all thought. Also, they’re in a really weak division so might have easier games than the jags. He also showed his break away speed and he doesn’t rely on injury to be relevant. He is in a RBBC and can win the job as he’s shown with browns he does have the talent to do so. But in the current RBBC, it’s a risky proposition"

Something along those lines. Then I’d just say those are the pros and cons for each, you should make your own decision.

EDIT: In terms of my point about the internet, I have a shared google docs with all the managers of my league where I post all the fantasy football related resources that I use including this, fantasy pros, all the pod casts I listen to, all the data/statistics sites I use to come up with my own research. So everyone has literally every piece of information I have access to. Does it make it harder for me to get good deals in my league? Sure. But end of the day, I know this. I watch 20x more film than any other person in my league. There’s only so much you can learn from listening to other peoples opinions. Most of the opinions I form are my own based on my knowledge of the game and watching tape. So even though they have access to all the same info as me, they cannot draw to the same conclusions. That is still my competitive edge.


#13

I am the commish of a few leagues and I allow it! I allow it because I trust everyone in my league and wish to allow them to make their own mistakes and have their own successes! However if a trade is clearly one sided I text the one getting the bad end of the trade and inquire if they know what they’re doing. If they can make a strong case as to why they want the worse players, I allow it. If the argument is weak like, “I just don’t want them” then I double check the record of the two players involved and their team structures. If it’s clear that the one is throwing and the other is the current leader or playoff bound I will then send a text to both players that the trade they wish to make looks sketchy and that I’d like to put it to a league vote. Once I had the two members involved immediately back down. Neither of them are in the league now. Once put to a vote, if the league allows it, then I push it through, but if the league doesn’t then all parties have to respect it. Additionally if that kind of a situation arises once the final decision is made, I put out a message thanking everyone for their assistance and asking for their feedback on how I handled the situation and how I may handle it better in the future! On my fourth year as commish!


#14

Thanks everyone for taking time to reply to this thread, it is appreciated.


#15

I think it really just depends on the type of people in your league. I know in my main money league that there are certain guys I can get legitimate unbiased trade advice from, and sometimes you need a sounding board on trading guys. Sort of like coming on here & asking for advice only the people here don’t have a dog in the fight. I don’t see a problem with people within the league talking about trades, as long as there’s no obvious collusion or someone is giving “bad” advice because the trade will be bad for them (being weekly matchup or someone within their division)… Basically, as long as people are cool I don’t get mad about giving/getting trade advice or having someone else weigh in on a trade.


#16

If they are coming to you to ask for your advice and you give them your honest opinion on the trade between team a and team b and your advice isn’t based on how it will affect your team that isn’t involved in the trade then it is perfectly ethical


#17

This is the exact situation i’m in. When asked advice i’ve been supplying it because there’s no way for them to learn otherwise.


#18

I had an owner come to me not too long ago about a trade he received and I listened to the offer but gave no advice. I absolutely hated the trade for him but kept my mouth shut. In the end he accepted the trade and that is that.

So to answer you question I don’t like it. If someone is brand new to Fantasy you of course still want them to have fun. So I would point them in the direction of some websites for fantasy or even get them on the Footballers so they can educate themselves. But I would be very cautious about offering a firm “yes” or “no” advice.


#19

For what its worth this is my stance as well. I will help a new guy, and i will offer general tips if asked about tactics like starting later playing guys in flex etc. but i don’t like to weigh in on trades if i can help it, and certainly not in a more experienced league such as the one I am referring to where everyone is very competitive.