What do you guys think of these shenanigans?

This will take a while, bare with me if you can. So a 4-7 team who is totally out of the playoffs in my league just basically dumped players to another team that is 7-4. I just beat the 7-4 team, I’m 8-3 and in 2nd place, so this deal will factor into my playoff seed, potential bye, etc. Here was the first deal that got vetoed. For context this a 12 team 1/2pt ppr league.

4-7 team trades:
DeAndre Hopkins
Nick Chubb
Amari Cooper

7-4 team trades:
Antonio Brown
Duke Johnson Jr.
Lamar Jackson
Devin Funchess

The trade was accepted 10pm the night before out noon trade deadline. I saw this after checking for trades in the morning and texted my league commissioner and close friend. I told him I wouldn’t veto but that this was a terrible trade for the integrity of the league. He texted back that other people were talking to him about it as well. He then started a group chat with me, him, and about 3 other people in my league. We all agreed the trade shouldn’t go through.

I also pointed out something other people missed. The 4-7 guy probably wouldn’t have a TE this week because he has Jimmy Graham, and his thumb is broken, and the guy has no FAAB. We can’t make moves without FAAB in my league!! So the guy clearly was not thinking about his team AT ALL. I also told my leaguemates that I was not helping my cause because I played the 4-7 team this week. That trade would help me to an easy win. To me after I saw this it was clear that this trade was total garbage. The League commissioner vetoed the trade. Also Lamar Jackson might not be starter week to week, and the 4-7 team has Tom Brady. Not the best year for him, but I would pick Brady over Jackson almost any day.

I figured the two teams would still make some kind of deal. I expected it to be better, but this is what they did and it was held up by the commissioner:

4-7 team trades:
DeAndre Hopkins
Nick Chubb
Amari Cooper

7-4 team trades:
Antonio Brown
Duke Johnson Jr.
Theo Riddick
CJ Uzomah

His optimal starting lineup(Which I think one or two other team can compete with, I think I can too in a good week):

QB: Brees
RB: Dalvin Cook
RB: Nick Chubb
WR: Hopkins
WR: Michael Thomas
TE: Zach Ertz
FLEX: Amari Cooper

So the 7-4 team gets 3 starters for 1 stud and Duke Johnson who has had 2 good games all year. Uzomah is terrible, Riddick is all but droppable anyway. Brown was the only good player the other team got imo. So Brown for Hopkins is a wash. The 4-7 team downgraded with Johnson for Chubb essentially, he traded the first string back for the second string back. And traded Cooper for Uzomah and Riddick which is also terrible. I went back to the group chat and restated that I thought this trade was also way too lopsided…no response from anyone somehow.

I thought about it throughout the day and told my league commissioner I would consider not returning to the league next season. I don’t want to be in money leagues with trades like this going through, that deal can totally put the league in the 7-4 teams hands. I have been in this league for 8 years, its with a bunch of college friends. I love my league, but how should I feel about this deal in terms of integrity of the league? Because I really don’t feel great about it right now. I don’t think I’m being biased just because I’m in this league, this trade is total garbage right?

Firstly, a tl;dr summary would help this post get more attention and input! (See my last paragraph for that) - To the matter, I don’t think that first trade was anything worth vetoing. For context, I’m a commish of a 10 man FPPR, a 12 man HPPR and a 14 man FPPR. If that first trade was in any of my league, I would have upheld that. Ballers reasoning is, if it isn’t collusion you have no reason to veto it, and it doesn’t appear to have any collusion. In fact, the 7-4 team got the bad end of that deal in my opinion because I value AB over Hop. Regardless before that trade the 7-4 team had AB and Michael Thomas and you said this is a 12 man HPPR league so in theory they were already looking like the strongest team at WR. Uzomah wasn’t the starter all year so saying he’s a terrible TE in this horrendous TE landscape this season is a little strong. If anything you vetoing the first trade HELPED the 4-7 team get a TE instead of letting them suffer through Graham being a decoy with a broken thumb. Duke might be an upgrade this week only as CLE plays CIN, where Hue Jackson now conveniently works. Hue in theory knows the plays CLE would run, but he didn’t really run plays with Duke so that might be the only player that CIN is not as prepared for. I also think you’re over valuing Cooper. Just because he’s popped this week and a bit the last two, doesn’t make him the caliber of WR like Thomas, Hop, AB, or even Diggs or JuJu, IMO.

Long story short, I don’t think any of those trades deserved a veto. That 7-4 team was stacked anyway, and the trade they did right before the deadline doesn’t appear to be collusion at all as the 7-4 team needed help at RB not WR AND the 4-7 team received AB and other necessities like the TE, thanks to your league initial trade veto so they’re not “dumping” their players they still received players of arguably equal caliber. I’m sorry those trades aren’t sitting well with you, but I don’t think they needed a veto. It is sketchy and borderline collusion but the AB part and the Duke hype kind of balances it all out. Either way that 7-4 team was stacked. Join in that trade fray next time I say!

1 Like

I tried trading for DJ but the team wouldn’t budge. You think its borderline collusion but that its okay? Im not trying to be a pain in the butt, I’ve just never seen a trade like this and I’m trying to figure out why its an even deal. I just don’t see it that way. And my league has NEVER vetoed any deal in 8 years, so this was an issue that my league mates felt we need to address in a way we never have before.

And I agree I did help the team I’m facing this week, I mentioned that to my league too. But I think the fact that in the original trade the 4-7 team clearly did not care about his team, imo that shouldn’t happen in any league. Every team no matter what the record should set their roster every week. I lost to the worst team in my league 2 weeks ago, the guy just had a good week, part of it was that he had decent roster construction, he didn’t roll over.

And I might be a contrarian but I do believe that Cooper can elevate to the level Dez was at on the Cowboys. Jason Garrett has been around a while and looks like he’s using Cooper the same way. 4 games, 32 tgts, 22 rec, 349yds, 3tds. Over 16 games that over 120tgts, about 90 recs, 1400 yards, and 12tds. I don’t think Cooper’s production has been a fluke so far. I think thats his role now. Getting Cooper for 2 players that are not going to help almost any team is not even at all imo.

Mike was going googoo over Nick Chubb this week too, Duke would never have the numbers to match Chubb ROS barring injury. I would never trade down like that. That just makes no sense to me.

The guy could have traded Ertz to the other team to make the deal even considering the other team needed a TE. Eifert and Kroft have been out long enough to show that Uzomah is not even worthy of starting in most leagues. I’m not convinced about this deal, idk. I do appreciate the input though, thanks for the comment! I know most of the foot clan is against vetoes, I have never vetoed in any league, but this deal just doesn’t sit right with me.

I didn’t see anything wrong with the first trade, and the 2nd trade is honestly worse than the first.

2 Likes

I only say it’s borderline because I felt bad for being so sternly on the opposing side. You’re not being a pain it’s a tough spot! I’ve seen crazier trades. Worst one I had to deal with was two or three years ago… AB was traded for, Markus Wheaton, Orleans Darkwa, and Matt Ryan… I texted the owner of AB saying, “this trade looks bad man… why are you giving up AB?” He responded, “AB has been trash for me I don’t want him and I’m immediately selling Darkwa and Ryan for Baldwin.” Meanwhile I was ready to veto that trade!
I’ve also seen trades like, D. Freeman and Howard for Mixon and JuJu this year! I upheld it. I had no reason not to! Collusion is pretty blatant and one team ends up significantly worse off. It may feel like an unbalanced trade but some people get mad at a player after a couple bad weeks and they think players who just broke out, like Chubb, are the next Kamara! Just gotta let’em play.

1 Like

So after seeing the effects of this trade I feel even more annoyed by it. I went back and adjusted points/records in my league. It was pretty simple to figure out. I’d be in the final pretty clearly if those teams did not make that trade and both played those players on their original rosters. Definitely leaving my league. Its the biggest prize ever for winning this season and I might be getting robbed out of it, most likely I have been already. Even just being in the final you get a good chunk of money.

The league has been very upset since the deal, my commissioner has been getting crap every week from people(I blame the people who did this deal more than the commish) This trade turned out exactly how it looked on paper to begin with, worst trade I have ever seen in any league I have been in. I still have no idea how my league let this happen. I still have no idea why anyone would approve of this deal, I think its that people wanna be the person getting the better end. I don’t wanna win cheap like that, and I especially don’t wanna lose like this.

The team I should be playing in the final is injured like crazy(Aaron Jones, James Conner, Keenan Allen, and already lost Greg Olson). I know you guys approved of this deal, but take it from me, if you see deals like this definitely make a big deal of it. ESPECIALLY if there is cash involved. It was a complete garbage trade. The fantasy community needs to buck up about vetoes and garbage trades.

Vetoes should not happen unless there is collusion. Take this and learn to be part of a league where everyone A) understands FFB and B) has integrity.

With that said, if veto is an option in your league where you all can vote on the issue. Then by all means use it. If its up to only the commish then no. I learned my lesson the same way. Now, I’m in a lot better league, but the ppl in my current league are too whiny and I’m leaving it to join another league next year with more mature people.

1 Like

I understand that there should only be vetoes if there is collusion, but the way this deal went down to me it could not be any clearer that it was collusion. The whole league feels that it is collusion, but most people had the attitude that there should not be vetoes. We still vetoed anyway for the first time in league history, and then they let the a worse deal go through. I feel even stronger now that it was collusion, I just lost to the team that got the better end of this deal in the semis. I totally respect that people have different opinions, but I feel like im on another planet when it comes to this deal. It was just clear garbage to me from the moment I saw it. It panned out almost exactly as I thought it would. I told my commish I was most likely leaving the league when it happened, Im gonna follow through on that. This sucks, been in this league a while, gonna miss it, it was good run.

Good Luck in your new league, hope things go better over there.

I understand being annoyed by it, but it’s tough to re-examine the trade this far after the fact. At the time the deal was made, Cooper was a big risk with not a lot of trade value and Duke Johnson was coming off a game or two with good production after the coaching change.

Yeah, the deal looks absolutely terrible in retrospect, much worse than it probably looked at the time

The first deal looks fair to me. Lamar has been a QB1 (Top 12) in fantasy since he became starter.

If both sides agree and aren’t colluding I don’t see a problem. The only way this really can be proven as collusion is if you have an email or txt or something where one player tells the other hey trade me these guys and if I win I will give you a cut. Outside of that it’s fair game.

Nothing against you, but I had something similar happen this year and I told the guy that threatened not to come back and even went as far as saying he was starting his own league ‘hey nice knowing you’. You put the commish in a spot where any good commish is never going to bend. You basically tried to blackmail the entire league to stop something you didn’t like. There is no way I would ever cancel a trade between two teams just because someone says they will quit if it goes through. In fact, in ESPN league guidelines they specifically state ‘someone threatening to quit’ is not one of the reasons their powers that be will cancel a trade.

He used the same excuse of ‘ethics’ or ‘integrity’ even after he had done questionable stuff in the past while running the very same league. It’s simple. If both people are happy about the trade then it goes through. You didn’t pay either of their entry fees. You don’t run their teams. You run your team. If you don’t like it then get to making your team better or (as you are doing) don’t come back. You can also suggest a ‘review process’ for new players after their first season to see if they come back or not and can try to help recruit better players, but you might not always find that in a local league.

There’s also another thing to consider. If I have the salesmanship ability to talk someone into a trade that is a usable skill in fantasy. You shouldn’t punish someone that is able to broker a deal. The trick is to make both guys like it in the moment. It’s a skill. You shouldn’t abuse it too much and just go and try to rip everyone off because then everyone will not want to deal with you and you will be the guy nobody wants to trade with, but still it should be a part of everyone’s arsenal.

Sorry you are frustrated. I know this is generally supposed to be fun, but sometimes when money pools get involved that changes things a good deal and even brings out the worst in everyone. Search around. I am confident you will be able to eventually find a league that suits you.

Yeah, I kind of thought collusion might have happened because it seemed like it and I would feel the same way you do. I had people veto good trades last year in my league but then approve worse trades. This year none of that happened. However, most of the people in my league complain or whine about too many topics. They are constantly crying to our commish, just like last year. I will say it was worst last year but I said last year that I would leave the league if this continued and I’m going to follow through.

1 Like

Its definitely not an exact science figuring how things would have worked out, but he easily could have had players that were even worse than the ones he ended up trading/playing too. In retrospect it looks worse for me personally because it screwed me out of making a final in all likelihood, it also screwed the champion from last season from making the final.

And I still have no idea why people are not seeing what I’m seeing, once again, not trying to be rude but if you take the full context of the trade, its not anywhere near even at all. Yes Duke had a couple nice games, but at the time of the deal Nick Chubb was coming off a bye and then a 34.4pt game. It was pretty obvious there was no improvement when you’re trading a starter for a backup.

I didn’t blackmail the league, and the Commissioner is my closest friend. I messaged him the morning of the deal and in a very polite way told him that one team was vastly improving and one didn’t improve at all and made no attempt to address a need in the process. Didn’t say I would veto, other people were in much more of an uproar. I didn’t threaten to leave until the second deal went through and nobody else was responding in our group chat, I wasn’t only going to the commish at that point. At the time other people were giving him more crap than me by a mile. Other people are STILL upset and blame him alone. He came to ME the other day because he’s sick of people blaming him, its not his fault, he can’t make every decision, its on the players who made this terrible deal. That’s what I told him myself. Besides the players who did the deal, I would put the blame on my leaguemates who didn’t protest the second deal when I was the only one saying it wasn’t any different than the first in the group chat we had.

Thank you for the response, there was a lot of information I put out there. I know I make long posts, but you missed a few things. I have a new league ill be in without money, and itll be with people in a state I just moved to. More socializing, less drama, win-win, lol.

1 Like

By blackmailing the league I meant you basically went to the commish and said ‘if this trade goes through I’m leaving’. That’s what happened to me as I was also discussing what happened in my league. Re-reading it seems like you waited to tell him instead of doing it when the trade passed? If so that’s a little different but at the point of the 2nd deal going through that is exactly what you did.

It doesn’t matter if you are close friends or if you were polite about it. If you were attempting to influence the commish by saying you would quit if a deal between two other teams went through the you were still blackmailing the league. You were trying to pressure another person to do what you wanted by making a threat to do something that would harm them or the league. That’s blackmail.

As a commish, friend or not, I was stating I would never bend to someone doing that. You would be screwing over not just those two teams but the rest of the league for the benefit of one person. If you did that every time there was a trade someone didn’t like it then becomes a personal preference of well do I like this person, or will this help me in any way, or do I personally think this trade is fair. It opens everything up to bias. If there is bias then it is not fair.

3 Likes

I hear you loud and clear, but that wouldn’t be blackmail, that would be manipulation at most, but I wasn’t asking for anything in return, so I don’t think that would even be manipulative. Blackmail implies I would have something compromising about him and I would tell people if he didn’t do what I wanted. That’s not at all what happened though. I do understand the point you are making however, you’re just not following what happened.

For example, truth, he let me pay the entry fee to the league later than everyone else, after the deal in fact, which really sucked, but I still paid up because I didn’t want treat the league or my friend like that. I could have held out on paying and told him to cancel the deal or I wouldn’t pay and I’d tell the league. That would be blackmail. However, I wasnt asking for anything, I was just telling him that I didn’t want to be in a league where deals like this happen. The deal went through, that was that, nothing I could do because nobody else was resisting anymore.

I had nothing to gain at that point, and I mentioned I’m close friends with the commish emphasize the fact that I wasn’t blackmailing, I would never treat my friends like that, so yes it does matter that I’m friends with him As I said, I wrote alot of information, I don’t think you fully understood what I was writing, or what blackmail is. I’m not blackmailing people, thats not word to just throw around.

Why do you keep trying to discredit me and say I don’t understand? I understand just fine. Perhaps you just don’t want to admit some things about yourself?

You weren’t asking for anything?

You were asking for a deal that didn’t involve you to be undone.

How is that nothing in your book?

You held over him that you would quit, which could possibly cause turmoil and trouble in the league and make his job more difficult as commish. That you are friends and you did this was very manipulative. You hoped to force your influence on him for your gain without justifiable reason (imo) to veto that deal.

Most people don’t want the possibility of conflict so they cave in to demands if threats are made. That is the card you played in order to try and scam and prevent another team from getting better to your detriment. You were worried about the other team more than making your own team better.

Also, if he’s allowing you to pay dues after the season started then he’s already showing a bias towards you. It reads to me as though you continued to try and leverage your friendship to get away with things outside of the norm as far as the league rules go that maybe some others wouldn’t be allowed to do.

I don’t know you. I don’t have anything against you, but if it walks, talks and quacks like a duck then it’s a duck no matter how many times you want to deny it and shrug it off.

Dude, I didn’t ask for the deal to be undone. Hence, I wasn’t asking for anything…Hence…no blackmail, lol.

He was showing bias towards me because were friends, and he knows my personal life, and why I wouldn’t be able to pay ontime…he was being polite. And he knew I wouldn’t screw over the league…

1 Like

Just because you said you wouldn’t veto doesn’t mean you didn’t try to influence him by your own admission, dude.

That’s fine. But in a money league it doesn’t pay off to be a commish and even put forth the appearance that you are playing favorites to someone. It usually leads to lots of angry people over something minor.

1 Like