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Which QB do i pick up to play next week?(mahomes on bye)


#41

How is saying Jackson isn’t as good as cam down playing jackson’s running ability? That’s like saying because I said Watson isn’t as good as Rodgers is downplaying Watson’s passing ability. You’re trying to compare a dude who has played 2 games to the most productive rushing QB in the HISTORY of the NFL. When its all said and done, he is going to own every single rushing record there is. If you’re ready to crown Jackson as the GOAT, go for it. I’ll hold.

Cam rushed for 706 yards and 14 TDs averaged 44.1 yards per game and 5.6 ypc on top of passing for 4k yards and 21 TDs and was a pro bowler in his rookie season. And he did that on averaging well below half the carries that Jackson has gotten, another fact that you seem to just completely ignore. If you give cam 26 carries or 17 carries, he would easily break 100 yards every single game lol. Total yards is meaningless when the attempts are more than double. In fact, Jackson is averaging less yards per carry (4.9) over this “historic” 3 game stretch than Cam did in both his rookie season (5.6) and over his entire career (5.2) which included 919 total carries. When Jackson accomplishes that feat or anything remotely close, I’ll happily backtrack my opinion. Until then, as far as I’m concerned anyone who thinks Jackson is a better rusher than Cam can go kick rocks. You’re trying to take a 2 game sample size against 2 of the worst defenses in the league and say Jackson is now a better rusher? I honestly don’t even comprehend how this is a discussion right now. It’s a joke.

Watson isn’t Jackson’s upside. Watson is a smart dude and a proven winner in an offense which great weapons and great offensive scheme. Watson is always looking to pass first and rush second. Jackson, doesn’t have nearly the same potential cause he will always be a run first QB. And sure maybe watson has done <250 for a bit because his team hasn’t needed him to go and launch for massive yardage. But fact remains that we have already seen watson be able to do that when needed. He is more than capable of going out and throwing for 400 yards and 4-5 TDs. Jackson can’t do that. So to say Jackson has Watson potential is a reach at best.

Hell if you’re looking for a running QB floor, go and get Josh Allen. He has been better than Jackson in every metric and is 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards over the past 3 weeks. Ahead of Jackson. Is Allen also better than Cam now? Come on man, let’s get real.


#42

Right now at this moment both are better RUSHERS than a banged up Cam. Completely. 100% yes. Neither are better overall QBs.

My point is you were dismissive of someone saying they thought Jackson was the greatest rushing qb in the league right now. I think it’s possible that he is based on seeing what he did in college and seeing that he can translate that to the NFL field. Even if they are bad teams they are NFL rosters and better than any college team he would have faced. He is still producing.

Maybe we are arguing apples and oranges because I am basing this off of rushing ability alone and not overall play but your comments on Cam didn’t read that way.


#43

I always struggle with people who just come on here and argue they see “ability” over production. The two go hand in hand. If you have ability, you will produce. If you don’t you won’t. Not sure why you’re bringing in injury into the discussion. I’m not. I’m looking at Cam and he’s the greatest rushing QB to ever play the game. I see it on screen and I see it in the production. If you want to completely ignore production, then go for it. Hard to compare either way until you see cam rush 26 times in a game. I have no doubt that he would put up video game numbers. He doesn’t because its stupid and he doesn’t have to.

I don’t give a shit what he did in college lol. I’ve seen what Cam can do IN THE NFL. I don’t have to rely on college to see what he’s capable of. College lamar was just a better athlete than everyone on the field. Cam is a better athlete than 90% of the people in the NFL. I can’t say that about Lamar. They have different running styles and Lamar is quicker and has better cuts, but I’m not ignoring production.

We aren’t going to come to a consensus on this because on principle, we value different things. I value production and talent. Talent evaluation is subjective, production is not. Seems like you are only commenting on talent which is purely opinion so I can’t really say if you’re wrong or right. You can think whatever you want there. It is just my opinion that it is comical that you are using Jackson’s production in a 3 game sample size to justify him being a better rusher than Cam.


#44

Okay then care to explain to me how you judge production for a rookie since you dismiss what they did in college AND dismiss small sample size while also dismissing ‘eye test’.

It sounds like you are always going to go with anyone who has compiled stats no matter what when you make that argument.

Not trying to sound like a smart ass in stating that, just asking your honest to God process because to me you rule out everything you could possibly go on.


#45

I, like you, watch the games and try and judge talent, and then I look at advanced metrics as well. And I told you the metrics. Lamar isn’t even exceeding cams yards per carry amount from his rookie season. He sure as hell isn’t sniffing his TD total. So just from those 2 alone, I find it hard to say he’s a better rusher right now. But the question here isn’t whether or not Lamar is good. At no point have I ever said Lamar Jackson is not a great rushing QB. I simply said he doesn’t compare to Cam.

You’re trying to use his 3 game sample size and college production to say he is a better runner than Cam. That is a totally different analysis than looking at those 3 games and his college to see if he can translate successfully into the NFL or is from an absolute perspective, a good rushing QB. I don’t ignore what he’s done in college and what he’s done in the 3 games. I just don’t think either of those 2 factors comes into play when making statement like “Lamar Jackson is the best rushing QB in the NFL”. It’s been 3 games.

I’m not even ready to crown Mahomes as the best QB in the NFL yet and what he’s done has been historically great. I just simply reserve judgement and crowning people the greatest of all time after such a small sample size.


#46

That makes sense.

I’m mostly saying it’s a ‘NOW’ league and I think right now at this given moment based on what I have seen over the past couple of weeks that Allen and Jackson are ahead of Cam in rushing ability when factoring in Cam’s current shoulder problems. You have two young, fresh legged guys in there. Cam has been running all year and is banged up.

If you are going with ‘stats and production’ perspective then in fantasy the number of carries doesn’t matter because you aren’t scored based on attempts, only yards and scores and you can’t base it on what a guy would do if he had ‘more opportunity’. Allen and Jackson right now are going to have more rushing opportunities than Cam and thus out produce him on the field in that area. A big part of that IS because Cam is much more accomplished as a passer and more well rounded. He doesn’t have to do it for his team to win, but the fantasy scoreboard isn’t taking that into consideration. You can only base it on current opportunity.

Cam is a legit HOFer as far as I am concerned and that’s coming from a Bama fan. Like I said, for fantasy purposes I absolutely value him above either of those two choices, but also for fantasy purposes I think you are underselling the value of a running qb, possibly because your leagues are 6 pt passing tds but we have already had that discussion. Even with it being a pass happy league and Lamar not performing to his potential he has still been top 13 every start.

Even if this current middling overall performance continues or drops to norm with more games. You are still going to look at a guy that is basically going to be in the top half of the league almost every start out just based on his running ability alone. Tebow and Pryor both sucked at qb IRL but were valuable in fantasy in small doses. Vick, who I think Jackson best compares to, was a fantasy superstar. I think Lamar is going to fall somewhere nicely between those two extremes when that happens but when it does that is going to be a valuable asset.

PS-Mahomes is far from the best QB in the league. I agree with some of those that have said ‘best arm talent’, but to me him and Tua from Alabama are similar. They can make all of the throws, but are still sort of machine-like. Mahomes made a nice transition under Smith. I think in a few years when some of these older QBs retire he will be the man, but not now. He is still too ‘wet behind the ears’.


#47

Okay man like you’re going in circles here. Are you saying Jackson is a better rushing QB IRL or a better fantasy play or what? I thought it was the former in which case you do have to take into account attempts/efficiency. To ignore that would be idiotic. By that logic I could get infinite attempts and get more yardage and would make me a better rusher than both of them. ANd if you are looking at fantasy perspective only, then you can’t even just look at rushing anymore. You have to look at total production including passing and when you include that, it isn’t even a conversation anymore. Can’t pick and choose and cherry pick to fit a narrative. Either look at everthing or don’t look at anything.

Like I said, I’m not going to crown 2 dudes who are legit mediocre QBs with good rushing ability as the best rushers in the league. What happens next year when Cam is healthy again? Does he then become a better rusher than them? And by that same logic, what happens if lamar gets hurt or allen gets hurt? Then they are no longer better rusher than cam? Your logic here is just incredible hard to follow. It’s a bit all over the place. What I am saying is as of right now and historically, Cam is the best rushing QB of all time. I’m going to assume he gets healthy eventually for next season. I’m not looking at a point in time or “NOW” league as you are suggesting. If I were, then Bell wouldn’t be a top RB anymore which to me he still is.


#48

It’s two different things you have said one based on fantasy and the other on IRL ability. You also were dismissive saying you weren’t getting on the ‘hype train’ that a guy like that could be a ‘league winner’. It’s not a sure fire bet, but if I had a great team and got a QB late like Andy Dalton then Lamar could very well save a season for someone. Not every league is going to have a Mayfield or Winston sitting there on the wire.

I don’t want to argue in circles either.

We both agree Cam is off the charts productive.

As far as Jackson we see things differently.

I think naturally you are going to be more dismissive until they have ‘proven it’ in your eyes and I’m here saying well he’s been ‘proving it’ for almost a month now how much more do you need. It’s basically arguing where each of us are willing to draw the line.

I think I am closer than you are and that’s fair.

I’m not crowning the guy, just saying he’s one of the most talented runners I’ve ever seen in college at any position and is proving that his skill set translates to the NFL as a starting quarterback albeit so far not in a very conventional way.


#49

League saving = yes.

League Winning = No.

Yeah 1 month, isn’t enough. All I need to do is think back to last year when Watson was the greatest to ever do it. He had a 2 month stretch of some of the most insane QB play i’ve ever seen. And this year he has been good, but come back down to earth. I think that will happen with Lamar as well.

Seems like you are though if you’re saying he’s better than Cam. If saying he is better than one of the most prolific QB rushers of all time is crowning him lol. Just like how if someone told me Mahomes or Watson are better than Rodgers, I would call that crowning as well. Not sure what else to call it.

The only exception to this rule is Barkley. I’ve seen enough from him both production wise and on screen to be comfortable putting him as the most talented RB in the league.


#50

All time you can’t really compare. I agree there.

You won’t be able to until both guys careers are over.

Can’t argue Barkley. I would put Chubb in there too. He’s faced the most stacked boxes for any RB with over 100 carries and still averaging 5.3 per carry. He has 3 long td runs padding that stat a bit but I can’t count that against him.

Watson was over drafted last year to the point he wasn’t a value. Nobody could keep that production up. Lamar actually has room to improve but better passing will lessen the rushing stats. It’s coming down to just whether or not he can or not or if the complexities of some of these defenses will destroy him. Watson will never produce at that small sample level again in his career in all honesty. It was that far away from the norm.


#51

Not continuing this discussion, but just putting this right here.

Josh Allen - Modern NFL record for Rushing yards by a QB over a 3 game span beating Michael Vick’s record. He still has a half left too.


#52

Like I said above, I prefer allen to Lamar Jackson lol. If you’re trying to look at it from a fantasy perspective. Allen may not look as good doing it but he is more productive and has been doing more with less than Lamar. Both are awful passers still though although I do think have to wait and see what they can do with real weapons and not replacement level WRs.


#53

Another stat I heard today.

Cam ZERO attempts from inside the 5 since week EIGHT.

That and him not being able to really throw a Hail Mary. Do you think he is heading for off season surgery?


#54

It’s possible. But it could also just be how effective CMC has been. They don’t need to run cam at the goal line. I mean if you think about it, trying to do goal line runs with your QB is not sustainable and honestly just not that smart. They’ve done it in the past cause Cam is just that good and they haven’t really had many legit RB weapons. But with CMC there, why put that punishment on your franchise QB.